The Werewolf Café The Werewolf Café

You are not logged in.

#51 2004-12-03 03:47:33

BlueEyesWolf
Member
From: California
Registered: 2004-11-22
Posts: 45024

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

(Claps paws at WolfVanZandt)

You go, fellow werewolf!

Offline

 

#52 2004-12-03 10:04:26

Chris Prunckle
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2004-11-15
Posts: 172
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

WVZ:
If you would like to give some positive reasons why the world needs "you" I would love to hear it.  I am but regular man and I am Irish so I am not even covered with hair.  I am unfamiliar with "RL Werewolves" and this might be where some of my misconceptions come from.  I speak on a purely horror movie fanatic front when I talk of werewolves.  So please if you will, enlighten me, and I am sure countless others like me, on this subject.

Offline

 

#53 2004-12-03 19:48:31

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Well, I really do believe that 'mainstream humans" are the reason humanity has come as far (in advances) as they have, but their greatest assets are also their greatest curses. The way their minds work with reality in order to be as imaginative and constructive as they are is that they are somewhat decoupled from reality. They actually operate with the reality inside their heads, which is more flexible than the one "out there". But they need a balance. Therians are more connected with the reality "out-there" and can provide the needed balance.

Also, since humans started living in cities (not, in itself, a bad thing), they have been progressively domesticating themselves to their technologies. there are a lot oof very bad things about domestication - including the fact that domestic populations are not biologically viable (they're dead end colonies). Through most of our history, the progerssion has been rather slow but it's exponential and has just about reached the "drop off point". RL Werewolves, along with other fringe humans provide an undomesticated seed in humanity.

Fact is, humanity is a mosaic of different types which need all the types in place to work right. Werewolves (and other Therian types)have been out of the picture for 500 years and humanity is much the worse.


As for RL Werewolves, Werewolves existed pre 15th century in Europe and they were common knowledge. The Inquisition put an end to that until now. In the last couple of generations, Therians have begun spontaneously reappearing. They're a continuation of the early medieval stock. They share a few commonalities with fictional Werewolves but not many. Fictional Werewolves are a product of the original models filtered through the hysteria that followed the Inquisition and the imagination of modern authors.

LOL but I do know a couple of Irish Werewolves and am sure that there are many others. My best estimate (that seems to play out pretty well here in the States) is that we make up about 0.03% of the population.

But one thing is flat certain - we're not role playing.

Offline

 

#54 2004-12-03 22:38:19

Speedbump
Member
From: Louisiana
Registered: 2004-09-21
Posts: 1140

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

I think it may have something to do with residual behavior from thousands of years of evolution. If you buy into the theory that at some point in pre-history all creatures were the same species and eventually branched out into what life is today, it would seem only natural that bits and pieces of those behavioral traits from each "leap" still exist in humans, albeit dormant. Some humans are more in touch with these fragments than others, hence the therian population and its scattered species (is "phenotype" the appropriate word in this context?).

This idea might also coincide with some of the ideals of shamanism and animal totem usage.

Offline

 

#55 2004-12-04 04:59:12

BlueEyesWolf
Member
From: California
Registered: 2004-11-22
Posts: 45024

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Wow! Profoundly werewolves in here! Who knew? LOL!

Offline

 

#56 2004-12-04 10:33:56

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Actually, I think that Werewolves caused shamanism, not the other way around.

One thing that's fairly certain. Therianthropy is physiological. We had a higher predisposition t certain diseases than the larger population (auto-immune diseases, migraines), so there's a very good chance that it's genetic and since there was a well defined population (the Neuri) that was originally known as Werewolves, there's a good chance that it's recial. There are some genetic traits that are much more common among Therians (shovel teeth, for instance). There may be a tendency toward dysplsia in the ankles and maybe wrists. The major differences seem to be in neurophysiology and we are not without our scientists....we're working on undrstanding that. I suspect it has something to do with a decoupling between the temporal lobe and the rest of the brain (sorta like a man's brain has weaker connection between the left and right hemisphere than a woman's brain). We're more emphathic and instinctual than a mainstream human.

Sociologically we have a community and a culture. THere have been three documentaries on us (only one, the AMC thing, was a stinker. The other two were fairly accurate and respectful). So the world is getting to know us - we're trying to maintain a little control over what people know about is (at least, that we're not misrepresented). We don't want a fiasco like the Vanity Fair furry special or that (I have to admit, hilarious) episode about Furries on CSI. BTW,although there is overlap, there's no essential relationship between the Furry Community and the Therian Community. We are most certainly not the same things.

Offline

 

#57 2004-12-05 01:16:09

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Speedbump, I saw Identity - good movie. It was a nice change of pace. I didn't figure it all out before the end. I figured who the convict was very early and I figured out that Timmy was the central figure but I couldn't quite figure how he figured in at the motel.

Yes, Timmy has multiple personalities. I would have gone for the death penalty. It's extremely rare for a person with MPD to be violent. If they are, it's not that they're not culpable. If a person with MPD is a murderer, they kill someone because they want to and, in order to not have to bear the resonsibility, they (subconsciously) split off that side of their mind. MPD is not a psychosis - it's a neurotic reaction. The difference is that, where people with psychoses have a break with reality, people with neuroses don't. The old saw is, "Neurotics build castles in the sky; psychotics live in them."

Offline

 

#58 2004-12-05 01:51:07

Speedbump
Member
From: Louisiana
Registered: 2004-09-21
Posts: 1140

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Ah, that makes sense. It seemed like he was able to cure himself of MPD towards the end, but apparently it wasn't his only mental issue.

I also picked up this quote from somewhere that I think you'll have some fun with:
"It's okay to talk to walls, just be afraid when they start talking back."

Offline

 

#59 2004-12-05 03:42:54

BlueEyesWolf
Member
From: California
Registered: 2004-11-22
Posts: 45024

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Speedbump wrote:

I also picked up this quote from somewhere that I think you'll have some fun with:
"It's okay to talk to walls, just be afraid when they start talking back."

LOL! Yeah but what if it's a tree that starts talking back? Especially if it is your favorite tree for....oh, you know....

Offline

 

#60 2004-12-05 13:25:31

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Uh, you mean trees aren't supposed to talk back?......

Offline

 

#61 2004-12-06 02:42:27

BlueEyesWolf
Member
From: California
Registered: 2004-11-22
Posts: 45024

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Well, have you ever see the tree bark?

(Ducks and covers)

Offline

 

#62 2004-12-06 09:51:51

Chris Prunckle
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2004-11-15
Posts: 172
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

WVZ:
I am glad you touched on the Furry subject because that was another question I was going to ask.  Two more questions on the subject though: what is the difference between Therian and RL Werewolves? and what characteristics comprise the two?

Offline

 

#63 2004-12-06 18:47:13

The Busboy
Administrator
From: USA
Registered: 2004-06-08
Posts: 18038

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

I am enjoying this forum, there are some great posts in here.

Offline

 

#64 2004-12-06 19:05:26

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

As far as I know, there is no difference between Therians and RL Werewolves. If there is any, Therian is the name of the culture and Werewolf is the name of the entity; but I don't think that distinction actually exists.

There has been some (actually a lot of) discussion in the therian community about what to call ourselves. "Were" was the most common label to start with but that causes problems with nonWeres. The first thing they think of when you say "Werewolf" is what they see on movies and read in books and there they stick. And since those things are fantasy entities only, we get labeled as fantasizers. So we are shifting toward using "Therian" to describe ourselves. It's short for "therianthrope" which is the general term of "lycanthrope". Unfortunately, that's not a solution because then we end up having to describe "Therian" and the whole thing goes full circle and "Therian" picks up the same connotations of "Werewolf".

The problem is not really what we call ourselves but how we address what we are to nonWeres.

So Therians and Weres have the same characteristics, but those are pervasive and would be hard to fully cover outside of a textbook on the subject. Like most genetic factors in mixed cultures, Therians are characterized by predispositions. To get a full understanding of what I mean, try to characterize an African-American. I think that just about anything you could come up with would be a predisposition and not an absolute characteristic. There are African-Americans how could pass for Caucasians; there are African-Americans that don't have high blood pressure, diabetes, or sickle cell anemia although those things do describe the African-American community.

It sounds like a simple question but a little though will expose the complications involved.

As for the difference between Furry and Therian; that's easy. Furry is a group that you choose to be a part of; a Therian is born Therian. There are certain things that Therians have no choice about. If they hhave a phantom self then they can't choose to not have it; the best they can do is repress it and that's a big mistake. If they're open to shamanic experiences; they can't choose to not have those experiences. If they are a Werewolf, they express themselves in ways reminiscent of wolves. They can repress those forms of expression but only to their own detriment. Furry lifestyle becomes a habit and habits are hard to break but Furryism is never an essential characteristic of a person who is a Furry. They can still choose to not be a Furry.

Offline

 

#65 2004-12-06 19:21:06

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Busboy, you may be interested in knowing the origin of the Were Community. I, personally believe that there have been been Weres for only about 1 generations before my own. Before that back to the 15th century, Wereism has been dormant in the human population. I recognized myself as a Werewolf way back in the 70s - before that I knoew that there was something very different about me. But until 1993, Weres were isolated individuals. We didn't know about each others existence. Then a website like this one opened up fro the purpose of discussing Werewolf movies and fiction. It was called Alternate :Horror Werewolf (It still exists. Most of us call it AHWW). I think it was actaully founded late in 1992 but by the end of 1993, peole were beginning to talk about nonficctional topics such as their own lives. the Weres came together over a website like this one.

We moving through a transition phase now - a shift from Internet to real life. There is a solid Community of Therians that relate face-to-face and the Internet is quickly becoming only a means for sharing information and resources.

I don't know about the future of the Were Community within the larger Human Community but I have reason to be optimistic. I'm a respected professional, citizen, and evangelist and most of the people that know me also know that I'm a Werewolf and are doing well adapting to that knowledge. Of the three commentaries done on the Were Community (one was only a 10 minute spot in a larger program about animal imitators), two has been acceptibly accurate and respectful. Only one leaned way out to the sensationalistic.

It really helps, I think, that we tend to be a very altruistic people that show real merit in our various communities. If peole know us as people before they recognize us as Therians, I think that we'll be accepted and valued as individuals and as Therians.

Offline

 

#66 2004-12-06 22:15:19

slave2moonlight
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2004-07-02
Posts: 1357
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

I'm still unclear on what a "furry" is. I had gotten the impression that they were the folks on the internet that liked to look at dirty animal cartoons, ha. You know what I mean, Looney Toon and Lion King porn and stuff like that.


"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." -- "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" -- "What's that star on the wall for?" -- "I've got a bad feeling about this." -- "I didn't get a 'harumph' outta that guy!" -- "You wanna talk to God? Let's go see him together. I've got nothing better to do."

Offline

 

#67 2004-12-06 23:54:36

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

They're not all like that. There're enough of those kind to completely repel a lot of Weres. That's why a lot of THerians are very sensitive about being mistaken for a Furry. But Furries like anthropomorphic art (there is clean Furry art), dressing up like animals (a lot of the mascots at theme parks are furries - they're sorta drawn to those jobs), and role playing animal and anthropomorphic characters. But I liken Furry to Goth. They're both more or less aesthetic lifestyles. Goths like dark and ancient; Furries like plushies and faux fur.

Despite the fact that I'm still pretty uncomfortable with the Furry Community, I still have to give them one thin. Many of them have a heck of an artistic sensibility. Much of their art is excellant and you should check out the Furry Music Foundation. Many of the Furry composers are classic rank composers.

Offline

 

#68 2004-12-06 23:59:37

slave2moonlight
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2004-07-02
Posts: 1357
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Cool, thanks for the info. I know I have some online friends that are furries, including here on this site, ha. As for me, I do have a thing for Lola Bunny and my toy collection does include a lot of plush, but that's about it, ha. I must say that it's cool to find out so much about Therians, as I've always known myself to be a werewolf, but this is my first experience hearing from/about others.


"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." -- "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" -- "What's that star on the wall for?" -- "I've got a bad feeling about this." -- "I didn't get a 'harumph' outta that guy!" -- "You wanna talk to God? Let's go see him together. I've got nothing better to do."

Offline

 

#69 2004-12-07 00:26:42

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Hmmmmm....as many Weres as there are in Texas, I imagine that you have run into them in the past. Of course, Texas is a rather large state.

Offline

 

#70 2004-12-07 00:43:10

slave2moonlight
Member
From: Austin, TX
Registered: 2004-07-02
Posts: 1357
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Yes, and I'm sort of hanging off the edge. Traveling south, Texas almost seems to end at Corpus. Little do most folks know, that if you travel much further, through the dry, empty ranch land and all the way to the border, there's a little area called the Rio Grande Valley. That's where I've been stuck since birth.


"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." -- "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" -- "What's that star on the wall for?" -- "I've got a bad feeling about this." -- "I didn't get a 'harumph' outta that guy!" -- "You wanna talk to God? Let's go see him together. I've got nothing better to do."

Offline

 

#71 2004-12-07 01:16:40

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Ah.......yeah. Don't know any other Weres down there. That doesn't mean there aren't any though.

Offline

 

#72 2004-12-07 10:46:28

The Busboy
Administrator
From: USA
Registered: 2004-06-08
Posts: 18038

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

WVZ, awesome posts!  I still think you need to write a book, if anyone can, you can.

Offline

 

#73 2004-12-07 13:09:05

Chris Prunckle
Member
From: Chicago
Registered: 2004-11-15
Posts: 172
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

My understanding of furries is that it is more of a sex thing than a lifestyle as well. 

WVS:
What I feel I am still missing is what makes an individual feel they are a werewolf?  Is it completely a psychological state or are there physical aspects?  What is the difference between a werewolf and a person?  I am sorry to ask so many questions but I am interested and really confused on the subject.

Offline

 

#74 2004-12-07 19:15:15

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4710
Website

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

The differences are physiological and psychological. I've listed some of the physical traits. As to what causes people to so strongly identify themselves as nonhuman animals, I have to honestly say that I don't know. I do know that the development of my phantom body was a natural progression, but I don't have any rational explanation of why it should happen.

I will say that, although Weres are, on te average funcctional (not dysfunctional) people, Wereism bears strong similarities to temporal lobe disorders (like temporal lobe epilepsy and language disorders). Also, like shamanism, it shares quite a lot of characteristics with schizophrenia.

That might be a clue. All mental disorders are known to be healthy brain functions that have gone out of control....except schizophrenia. Most psychologists don't see anything normal about schizophrenia. On the other hand, there are well known psychologists, like Laing and Szasz, who have proposed that schizophrenia is only a dysfunction because our culture conditions schizophrenic people to be dysfunctional. I suspect that phenomenon like Therianthropy and Shamanism are the functional forms of schizophrenia.

Another interesting thing about Therianthropy, if it is related to schizophrenia, is that, whereas schizphrenia almost never occurs with multiple personality disorder, Therians may be natural mosaics (people who have "MPD" but who can control it so well as to benefit from it). That may help in explaining the dissociative effects like the shifts and the phantom bodies and the internal fragments that many Weres have that act as "spirit guides" (I'm not being a skeptic here. The Weres I'm talking about realise that their guide is part of them and not an external entity).

Understand that I'm not discounting spiritual explanations of therianthropy. The spirit world and the material world are like two sides of a coin. When there's a scientific explanation for something, there's an equivalent spiritual explanation. I'm just trained as a scientist and am more comfortable with scientific explanations.

Offline

 

#75 2007-08-18 14:01:54

WereWolfH
Member
Registered: 2007-07-10
Posts: 928

Re: Why have werewolves been given the shaft?

Not to worry, I'm writing a book that will have werewolves. I was acutally in NYC being inspired by the NYC film kids (i'm still a kid) and I came up with some brilliant werewolf movie ideas. Especially the openers.

okay but back ontopic. Okay vampire movies are relatively cheep. You just need teeth at minimum. So enough of those were done and done well so that's why vampirism has taken off. Cheap and makes a ton of money.
   We still haven't gotten there with making a real costume werewolf come off 100 % believable. I mean i guess ninja turtles helped make the mouth movements more realistic. Underworld 2 the original werewolf was cool looking but it did look like  a costume.
       Ummmm so yeah cost I think is the biggest deal!!! Plus the evolution of the werewolf legs has made it SO DIFFICULT. Now they have canine legs. Before they were just really really muscular human legs with a lot of hair. Sooooo, I don't know, i hated the dog soldiers legs (were those bell bottoms) and Underworld they looked like they didn't know how to walk well.


"I got somethin' I wanna tell ya'. I'm not like other guys...

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.14
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

In Association with Amazon.com   In Association with Zazzle.com
page counter View Statistics