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#1 2009-03-05 08:10:00

WerewolfLeaAnn
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From: Somewhere in Tennessee
Registered: 2008-11-28
Posts: 556

Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Hey, does anyone know if religion even effects werewolves/therians?


"I feel the Change, back to a better day, the hair stands on the back of my neck, wildness is the preservation of the world, so seek the wolf in thyself!"- Metallica, "of wolf and man"

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#2 2009-03-05 18:06:42

SherlawkDragon
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From: South Florida
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

We're talking about Therians here?  The answer here requires you to understand that Therians are normal people like everyone else.  Religion does not truly affect a Therian, it does not seriously affect our actions, just like a non-Therian would only have a minor effect from religion.  On the other paw, many Therians say that Therianthropy has affected their religion, or at least the way they think about it. (For example, I was swayed to different thoughts on spirituality than I think I would have been were I a non-Therian)


"GIVE ME NUDITY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!"  -me, here, just now.
My Kewl Story about Unicorns

Hey, if anyone wants to IM me, go ahead, I'd love to chat...  Oh, by the way: ANWERS!

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#3 2009-03-05 20:46:51

chaotic wolf
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From: GA, USA
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 164
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

well, if you look at WolfVanZandt, hes christian-therian right there. I come from a muslim background, look white as any other caucasion individual, and I cant say what my religion is online, partly because i dont even exactly know it. Either way, the history tends to surround itself in christian theology, as we all know, but it desn't stop there. Many religions and cultures have different depictions on therians. So as to whether religion affects therians, i think it tends to encourage some pagan/nature-based religions, as i have seen commonly, butit sertainly isn't limited there.


Chaos is but a state of mind.... Entropy is what rules us all.

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#4 2009-03-06 08:10:19

WerewolfLeaAnn
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From: Somewhere in Tennessee
Registered: 2008-11-28
Posts: 556

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Well, that's all very interseting, now since I think about it...
You know, I'm Protestant, and I'm therian, so that's probably a pretty dumb question, now since i think abot it... :shrugs shoulders:


"I feel the Change, back to a better day, the hair stands on the back of my neck, wildness is the preservation of the world, so seek the wolf in thyself!"- Metallica, "of wolf and man"

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#5 2009-03-06 09:00:47

Daninsky
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From: Germany
Registered: 2007-01-09
Posts: 417
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

It does make you wonder if therians not more prone to follow other less restrictive, more paganistic religions.
I mean the judeo-christian or muslim world view doesn't have anything much to offer to you, I would think.

Especially if we assume that therians in the greater whole feel more attached to nature than your average man.


Call no man happy 'til he dies

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#6 2009-03-07 02:44:29

WolfVanZandt
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From: Broomfield, Colorado
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Posts: 4717
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

I can't imagine why. Christianity in it's original intent was totally relationship oriented and it in no way left nature out of the picture - and I'm talking about Biblical Christianity. Christianity isn't restricted unless you turn it into a legalistic travesty of Christianity. That was, of course, Jesus' main controversy against the religious leaders of His day.

Therians are empathic which means they're relationship oriented. Christianity actually has quite a lot to offer them, which might explain why about a third of the Therian community are nominally Christian (in the U. S. and on the Internet, anyway).

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#7 2009-03-07 06:42:04

Daninsky
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From: Germany
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Posts: 417
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

I guess that view depends on which of the books one choses to believe from the Bible. smile
Christianity never stroke me as overtly empathic and much less nature friendly, isn't it more about subjugation most of the book through?
However, nominally isn't saying much. In my experience people just tend take what ever was handed down to them through their parents, not actually questioning that believe and often enough not even sharing it.

Mind you, you're certainly right about Church & Christianity.


Call no man happy 'til he dies

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#8 2009-03-07 15:04:26

chaotic wolf
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From: GA, USA
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Posts: 164
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

WolfVanZandt, could you describe your christianity to me, at least what references you are making the aloow Christianity a lot to offer therians?  am not failiar enough with it to see your points. Its sad really, I never got christianity in school, way to confusing to get on my part... *shakes head in shame*  I appologize, I just dont understand.


Chaos is but a state of mind.... Entropy is what rules us all.

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#9 2009-03-07 17:19:03

SherlawkDragon
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From: South Florida
Registered: 2007-08-18
Posts: 1308
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

See... I was a devout Christian when I was younger... But as I grew older, I found that not only was I not truly fulfilled by it, but I didn't, couldn't really believe the majority of things I was being told.  I started to look elsewhere, looked at other ideas and religions, learning about them to truly understand, rather than deny and criticize them.  Eventually, I settled on Deism, as I've realized that all other religious beliefs are made up entirely of shots in the dark, and as long as you aren't arrogant enough to think you're right, there is not much of a problem.  Now on the topic: I'm into nature stuff in my spirituality, and I think that's not only because I'm a therian, but I've always had an interest in any case.
EDIT: My point might not have been clear.  All this religious stuff started before the therianthropy stuff, and was getting to the end of it when I came into the community.  The point is that people typically change without therianthropy interfering.  In reality, I think that therians are about the same as non-therians statistically when it comes to religion, but you can't tell because most Christians aren't as overtly religious as WVZ and the CT gang, and most are offline anyway.

Last edited by SherlawkDragon (2009-03-07 22:12:23)


"GIVE ME NUDITY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!"  -me, here, just now.
My Kewl Story about Unicorns

Hey, if anyone wants to IM me, go ahead, I'd love to chat...  Oh, by the way: ANWERS!

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#10 2009-03-07 20:45:57

chaotic wolf
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From: GA, USA
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 164
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Ahhh, i see sherlawk. My beliefs tend to run in that same direction, as in with respect to nature. It tends to hold the most truth in life when you are really looking for something to hold onto. I can say that I have chosen not to be muslim and christian, unless convinced otherwise. although that is not likely, but i have chosen something along a nature based religion. Still deciding on what, depending upon my needs. But thanks for your input, very informative. smile


Chaos is but a state of mind.... Entropy is what rules us all.

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#11 2009-03-07 23:48:21

WolfVanZandt
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From: Broomfield, Colorado
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Posts: 4717
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Actually, nature is pretty much about submission. Subdominants submit to dominants and dominants submit to nature herself. The standard of Christianity is Jesus so you don't have to wonder which books to choose. If your a Christian, the Old Testament points toward Christ and Christ fulfills the whole, so the Gospels are the primary books of Christianity.

Jesus presented a lifestyle of relationship. The modern cult if extreme individuality and complete self-sufficiency is not only a perversion of human nature (humans are most certainly pack animals), they are most certainly a perversion of lycanthropy. It's a product of domestication via technology.

If you want to know about relationship, you can't do better than to read the Gospels. In both action and teaching, he presented to primary example of leading by serving. There is no better example for an alpha.

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#12 2009-03-07 23:55:11

LerangFang
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From: The hatred in his heart.
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 98

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

I consider myself atheist/Spriritual. I don't worship god nor go to church for my own reasons. I believe in ghosts and spirits and all that jazz. I've had people think I was a satan worshiper, lol. Mebe I'm too goth.


You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High."
Obviously that didn't work too well now did it lucie? =/

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#13 2009-03-08 00:56:23

chaotic wolf
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From: GA, USA
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Posts: 164
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

My main issue, WolfVanZandt, is that Jesus is the standard when books on christianity were made well after his death, in political efforts to unite a kingdom under one religion. And another thing, How did Jesus present a lifestyle of relationships?

About nature: Yes, it is. But look at it this way, Nature is the ruling of all creatures in existance. And when humans turned away from that, they came into disharmony with the natural environment, which is what I believe to be naturally unhealthy. Mental prowess dimishes to a degree, varied from person to person, and one's health can dramatically decrease, whether this be weight gain, a suscpability to illness, and so does mental health, as in the mind becomes weak to emotional, overbearing occasions.

LeranfFang, doesn't atheism defeat the outlook of being Spiritual? Man, that sounded like a complete contradiction to me... ok, well almost. It probably isn't and I will be told correctly the next time someone leaves a message. Anyways, thats my little bit of input at 1 AM EST big_smile


Chaos is but a state of mind.... Entropy is what rules us all.

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#14 2009-03-08 03:37:38

WolfVanZandt
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From: Broomfield, Colorado
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Posts: 4717
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

The Gospels were written people who either knew Jesus or were "secretaries" of people who knew Jesus. By "well after his death" I don't know what you mean. All the gospels were written within 70 years of His crucifixion. All the books of the New Testament were written within 100 years of His crucifixion. And most of what Jesus taught was about relationships. I don't want to reproduce the gospels here on the forum. You can read them.

You're right, humans turned away from a right relationship with nature. Christianity is about returning to right relationships.

And you probably know what to expect - atheism doesn't accept God - it doesn't have a particular stand on spirit.

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#15 2009-03-08 16:03:09

chaotic wolf
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From: GA, USA
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 164
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

yeah, thanks WolfVanZandt. I will pull up some Gospel clips just to get the gist of what I am supremely missing bit thankyou.


Chaos is but a state of mind.... Entropy is what rules us all.

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#16 2009-03-08 17:45:07

LerangFang
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From: The hatred in his heart.
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 98

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

WolfVanZandt wrote:

And you probably know what to expect - atheism doesn't accept God - it doesn't have a particular stand on spirit.

That's why I'm kind of both. Don't really have a name. I refuse to worship god because of a few reasons.


You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High."
Obviously that didn't work too well now did it lucie? =/

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#17 2009-03-08 18:07:39

Daninsky
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From: Germany
Registered: 2007-01-09
Posts: 417
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Atheism is not about the question if any God is a worthy God or not, that would be closer to agnosticism.
The question if God has no power or simply no interest is of no concern to a atheist, theirs is  the believe that there is no God or Gods.

Last edited by Daninsky (2009-03-08 18:08:41)


Call no man happy 'til he dies

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#18 2009-03-09 00:02:28

WolfVanZandt
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From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Indeed, deists believe in a God that doesn't interact with His creation. I don't know a religion that believes in a God that isn't worthy of worship. That would sorta, like, take all the steam out of that religion, so to speak.

HHmmmm....well, yeah, I guess I do. Certain forms of gnosticism believes in an unworthy God.

Last edited by WolfVanZandt (2009-03-09 00:03:25)

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#19 2009-03-15 21:03:33

WritingWulf
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From: Wisconsin
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 5645

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Yeah, Christianity was always way too constricting around the idea of "Sin" and the words like "Demon" being from "Daemon" or "Daimon" and some holiday's meanings and history being changed. *shrug* to each their own, but Paganism in whatever form, has always just sunk within more serenely with myself. Humbleness is good sometimes but to a point, I see it sometimes be taken too far and it just gets to self esteem issues.

Wicca has always been most praising and accepting of Therian-like topics and you can find many groups with the two subjects combined in many different places.

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#20 2009-03-15 22:49:44

SherlawkDragon
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From: South Florida
Registered: 2007-08-18
Posts: 1308
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Well, the topic seems to be answered, but this looks like an interesting discussion, so let's keep going.

WolfVanZandt wrote:

Indeed, deists believe in a God that doesn't interact with His creation. I don't know a religion that believes in a God that isn't worthy of worship. That would sorta, like, take all the steam out of that religion, so to speak.

Hey!  Someone's talking about me! O!<
I know Christian-Satanism believes in such, that's why they worship Mr. Magical Red Dude.  I think Scientology has something like a god who is evil, an alien named Zord or something who is trying to keep us from reaching enlightenment...
In any case, we (Deists) don't necessarily believe that the creator never interferes, only that the creator never speaks to us as humans (that would be revealed religion, and Deism is totally reason based).  I know Christian Deists believe that God interfered by sending Jesus of Nazareth, and that there are Deists who think God communicates with us subtly, but really, no one knows.  As Meyher points out in Religulous, it's arrogant and childish to think you actually know the divine truth as fact, it's all blind faith and guesses (and no, I am not saying that as an opinion, it is fact).
As for me, I'm not sure if God interferes.  I believe God was totally capable of setting everything up at the Big Bang to be "correct" as God saw fit, and thus has no need to interfere.  That's a typical belief for Deists to hold.  Now, do I worship?  Yes, I worship the world, the universe, and the Creator through my constant gratitude.  Do I pray and think they are answered?  Yes, I'm just not sure if the answerer is God or my own magical powers (speaking as a metaphysics guy here) doing their work.  Do I believe in Divine-Type consequences?  Certainly, I just believe the energy patterns of the universe take care of that for you.  Might I be wrong?  I don't doubt it, but I'm pretty sure god and Jesus aren't waiting for me at some gate in the clouds with a big book saying to send me down to the frozen last few levels of Dis as described by Dante's Inferno and American McGee's Doom where Mr. MRD is going to poke me with a pitchfork and cackle like a wackle, much like in that episode of Tom and Jerry where Jerry is killed by a piano.  The idea seems absurdly ridiculous (or might I say, Religulous) to me.
I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I have just as right to say that as you have to tell me I'm going to MRD's City of Dis for honestly believing that.


"GIVE ME NUDITY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!!"  -me, here, just now.
My Kewl Story about Unicorns

Hey, if anyone wants to IM me, go ahead, I'd love to chat...  Oh, by the way: ANWERS!

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#21 2009-06-11 03:46:36

Yozhe Volf
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Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 15

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

WolfVanZandt wrote:

I can't imagine why. Christianity in it's original intent was totally relationship oriented and it in no way left nature out of the picture - and I'm talking about Biblical Christianity. Christianity isn't restricted unless you turn it into a legalistic travesty of Christianity. That was, of course, Jesus' main controversy against the religious leaders of His day.

Therians are empathic which means they're relationship oriented. Christianity actually has quite a lot to offer them, which might explain why about a third of the Therian community are nominally Christian (in the U. S. and on the Internet, anyway).

2 things; good job defining your worldview, & I agree leagalism has screwed Pop-Christianity up.
any-hoo, im a methodist christian (John Wesley FTW) lol


The bluntest wolf ya'll ever meet.

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#22 2009-06-12 12:01:22

bdk336
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Registered: 2009-03-31
Posts: 277
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Most people would call me an Atheist because I don't worship or believe in a god. The only objection I have with that is that the general opinion of Atheism and Atheists themselves seem to be moving towards the status of a religious group.

I don't reject the idea of a god, nor am I refusing to worship. The only source from which I have heard any mention of the concept of a godlike being is from other people. Nothing from my own experience and examination of the world has brought forth anything that would even suggest the idea. In other words the idea of a god seems to be based in human culture and nothing else as far as my experience reaches.

Assuming the removal of the human element, why would I choose to worship or even believe in an idea which has not even presented itself to me? The idea of a god is simply an idea held by other people which would not have even crossed my mind otherwise and the only thing that could, in theory, drive to believe would be the influence of other people.

Basically I don't require a total explanation of the universe and I won't subscribe to an explanation simply because it is the only one available.

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#23 2009-06-12 22:49:56

WolfVanZandt
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From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
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Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

Okay, but what does that have to do with Werewolves or Therians?

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#24 2009-11-23 09:46:59

Stormwolf
Member
Registered: 2007-04-20
Posts: 33

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

SherlawkDragon wrote:

...but I'm pretty sure god and Jesus aren't waiting for me at some gate in the clouds with a big book saying to send me down to the frozen last few levels of Dis as described by Dante's Inferno and American McGee's Doom where Mr. MRD is going to poke me with a pitchfork and cackle like a wackle, much like in that episode of Tom and Jerry where Jerry is killed by a piano.  The idea seems absurdly ridiculous (or might I say, Religulous) to me.
I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I have just as right to say that as you have to tell me I'm going to MRD's City of Dis for honestly believing that.

Of course, that idea seems "Religulous" (Maher has a few good points sometimes), Sherlock.  And utterly against reason or elementary logic as well, Watson. xP

Have you ever seen the movie "The Invention of Lying"?  It's a surprising wonderful little film that I would call an "extraordinarily human movie" because it addresses some fundamental questions that come with the human condition of existence.  It's about a world where nobody understands saying "something that is not", and when one guy "evolves" to the point where he can say something that is not (ie, lie), he invents religion and "The Man in the Sky" and the concept of life after death to comfort his dying mother, and eventually the world.  It's a really charming movie, on a lot of levels.

Oh, "Hi" everyone.  *waves*  Just passing through for the moment. xD

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#25 2009-11-23 11:31:12

Exanimis
Just an Old Dog
From: North Carolina U.S.A.
Registered: 2009-11-13
Posts: 198

Re: Werewolves/Therians and Religion

I see this same argument on every forum I visit. It's easy enough to explain and I don't see why people make it so hard. Any belief system is a matter of choice. Do you believe in evolution, that man has been to the moon or that we are carbon based lifeforms because you have no other choice, or do you believe these things because they make the most sense to you? Any belief system is a matter of choice, look at how many Catholics are Catholic because they were raised to be but they still don't go along with everything the church says. Even being raised a certain religion doesn't prevent you from having ideas or coming to your own conclusions.

I believe because I choose to. Believe what makes the most sense to you and allow me to do the same.


There is sorrow enough in the natural way From men and women to fill our day;
And when we are certain of sorrow in store, Why do we always arrange for more?
Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
from"The Power of the Dog" by Rudyard Kipling

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