And that's the problem. Any change has taken so long to make. The reason I won't post on the WW Constitution is because, frankly, why would we need it? We live in half-secret, sure we may find the skeptics but we still control it well. I really don't see a need in my opinion.

But a movement could possibly save the from destroying themselves.

Truthfully, you may not like them, but think of the good they've done.

The internet.. we don't have to speak as ho we are, or meet at certain times. Cars.. sure they might give off a lot of pollutants, but they're nice when you break a leg.

*sigh* I guessed this is what this topic was about... The overwhelming majority of topics on Werelist are like this, and that's why I'm not there.

LerangFang wrote:

We know that throughout history people have been stubborn about changing their thinking. Africans eventually got rights. Homosexuals are being accepted now. But what about Therians?

Therians are not an actively persecuted minority.  The vast majority of non-therians do not know about us, and the vast majority of the the ones who do have no problem with it. (and that includes the trolls making fun of it, they do the same over gays, but offline they have no problem with gay rights)  There is little to compare.

To be truthful, until I stumbled into here I had never heard of the word 'Therian'. I had thought I was half-werewolf, a person with the occasional mental shift of a werewolf, but alas could not shift into one. I had thought that there may be a day where I would begin transforming into a snarling werewolf. Thankfully that has not happened.

I was similar, but even still, that doesn't mean it's impossible to find us.  In fact, those werewolf/furry/occult/fantasy links that the Therian and Otherkin communities have are how most people find out.  If you notice: the people from the Werewolf/Furry/fantasy Fandoms have no problem with us, and anyone who does usually gets beaten down until they have to change their name and never speak of it again.

Now think of the general public. They live in a very unstable world where a lot of things are happening beyond their control. Their beliefs are constantly being challenged. Hell, in that big crowd at the mall, there are probably a therian or two that don't know that they are therian's.

No, it doesn't bother them.  The general public is fine.  Even still, this has nothing to do with it, in fact, it would help to have unawakened therians in the crowd saying "hey, that sounds like me!".

Now think of humanity as a whole. The above mention, if faced with (in their minds) a separate strand of 'insane-animal freaks', would begin to start questioning the most solid thing anyone has about humanity. The majority would call these people insane, freaks, and would demand they get 'help'.

Nope.  Not true at all.  The vast majority would either not care or want to know more.  People are not as judgmental with new ideas as you think.  If you got out of your hermit-cave and gave them something to judge, you might learn something.

Daninsky wrote:

Quite frankly I don't see a reason why we should treat you any other than other delusional people, like, say, those that fimly believe that the Bible is the word of 'God'.  You would most likely just get filed away with Cosplayers and Furries long as you don't pose a obvious threat to others or yourself.

Exactly.

Last edited by SherlawkDragon (2009-03-21 15:09:36)

Indeed.

Ya'll are aware, aren't you, that I'm completely open about being a Werewolf (I don't just call myself a Therian in real life - I call myself a Werewolf) and I'm more than just accepted - I'm respected.

As to us being a secret - the only reason we might be a secret is that others just don't care - they're not that interested.

The Werelist used to come up pretty close to the top when a search was done on "werewolf". It doesn't now, but we've had plenty of curiosity traffic. I've had quite a few people who had stumbled onto my website and wanted to know more about Therians. (I'm amazed anybody could "stumble onto" my website - I can't even remember how to get there and, although I've heard that people have reached it via Google, I've never been able to do so.)

We've had 4 documentaries about us now - two that have had favorable reviews by the Therian community and two that did not. And there's a mysterious fifth that I haven't been able to track down that seemed to be very positive. Story House has been working on a documentary that's supposed to air soon on the History Channel although I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to make it. And I have a scholarly friend that's working on a book that will include a chapter on the Therian community - he's a popular author.

So I know the secret society thing is exciting and dangerous sounding - but it just ain't real and cannot ever be real again, if it was ever real and I have some pretty major doubts about that.

I'm open about it too, though the whole town doesn't know, only people who know me aside from family (don't ask me why I haven't told them, just doesn't feel right right now...)
I said something about this on another forum to someone that needed to be told (she'd been dragging it on for a page or so, I needed to lay the claws and fire on her).  When a reasonable and productive member if society (in this case, me and VanZandt over there) makes a calm and rational statement ("I'm what's known as a real life werewolf, by the way") other reasonable members of society don't immediately try to crush it and call them crazy ("NOO!!! EVIL!!! IMOSSIBLE!! THOSE NOODLES ARE HALF BAAAAKED!!!"), instead, they either accept it ("oh, that's intersting"), write it off apathetically and move on ("meh, whatever"), or look for more information so they can understand the statement ("What exactly does that mean").  Now, for people under the age of 20 and people telling family members, this is not the normal case, but for telling random friends, it's very typical.  In other words: We are not being "oppressed", and society is not trying to "crush all differences".
(ok, so I said that in a way that made her leave, but I don't see any need for that here)

WolfVanZandt wrote:

I've had quite a few people who had stumbled onto my website and wanted to know more about Therians. (I'm amazed anybody could "stumble onto" my website - I can't even remember how to get there and, although I've heard that people have reached it via Google, I've never been able to do so.)

Oh, you talking about me?  I searched "Therian" or something perhaps even "Therian Timeline", and it actually comes up in the first few pages for the first and it comes up first for the second.  I also wrote an article for it on Therian.Wikia back when I founded it.

EDIT: Because someone posted while I was posting.

Vindicator wrote:

Interesting I had not really seen or heard anything definitive on Therianthropy outside of forum discussion.

There are lots of therian forums and websites, you just have to look around.  but see  You didn't!  That'w what we're getting at: people don't care enough to look it up, it's not that important to the vast majority of non-therians who hear about it.

I agree with you on the secret society info, that once they are blown you can never return to it. It probably is better that way.

No, I think you misunderstood.  There has never recordedly been, and there is no need for, a massive secret society of therians.  We meet for gatherings in public, at locations which are publicly posted.  We can do that because no torch waving mob is coming after us for it, it's not some amazing taboo.  People don't care enough for us to need to hide as a community. (though, as individuals, that's what the Black Veil's there for, hiding it until you're ready to bring it out)

I would have to say I didn't know about your stance on yourself. It is fantastic that you can stand up and say what you are a werewolf so definitively, very brave.

Being more open and having people who know and have some minor understanding of what you're going through is a wonderful experience.  It has brought me closer to alot of my friends and given me alot more support when it comes to this.  (not saying everyone should do it, only that it's a risk with a reward)

Last edited by SherlawkDragon (2009-05-12 00:52:13)

ack!  he posted again!

Vindicator wrote:

Yeah it really does seem like average people are the most accepting. Family always seems difficult to tell anything to, which is probably from them being closest.

That's exactly it.  It's hard to tell people that you can't break away from, who have known you since you were a child and may still think of you as one.  They remember mistakes you've made and want the best for you, but they can't always know what is best, though they will push for it because, as they say, that's what family's for.

The issues lie within the extreme outliers of society, the ones who get the press, and make the fuss. In the end though everyone is in the same boat with people accepting them and others not for various reasons, just the way the world is, has been, and in most probability always will be.

Not sure what you're going on about here... but ok...

Vindicator wrote:

Sorry about posting, I didn't know it was bothering you.

O!o???  That was a joke.  You can post as much as you want, it's imply my problem alone if I can't keep up with it.  When I have a problem, you will know.  Otherwise, you're probably never going to knock me off the cloud of zen.

If I can explain a little better. It seems people who put up a fuss about those who are different from the mainstream are usually those people who are extremists within their own little mainstream world. For example very judo-christian religious people tend to be more anti same sex marriage, but those who feel so strongly tend to be a minority within the community, and are the ones who get press for it.
The other part about everyone deal with the same issues, is just that, everyone has to deal with people who don't accept them. I have to deal with a very religious community who doesn't  agree with my Existentialism. Everyone has their own acceptance issues. That's all I meant by that.

Ok, I understand what you're aying now, and I agree.  From what I've noticed, it's generally true.

WolfVanZandt wrote:

Also, it's not courage on my part because I've never felt threatened.

That makes sense.

Very little - as a public phenomenon we're only about 15 years old. That's not much time for people to become interested and for things to get published. There's been four documentaries to mention us - two were stinkers (evidently - I only saw one of them), two were reasonable. We were mentioned in passing in Brad Steiger's Werewolf Book and he connected us with role players, so I'm not real fond of that resource. Then there's Ms. Greene's book on shapeshifting - I haven't heard many positive reviews from the Therian community on that one and I didn't like it.

Funny story, but true - I ordered the book via InterLibrary Loan to check out and, my library knowing my reputation as a werewolf wanted to do something nice for me so they actually ordered the book for their stacks. I hated smiling and thanking them but not too many people do nice things for me so I did. Made my face hurt......

I honestly doubt that we will be accepted anytime soon. I mean, look at me, explaining your an Arctic Wolf Therian is one thing, but I'm also a female kitsune therian, and that's another. Point is, society has it's accepting point. However, we can push it further, and we can start by not being afraid to show we are therians.

I think some people were open, but most are not.

True, I still say we should listen to my campaign.