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#1 2012-10-05 08:16:12

Siverwolf
Member
From: Western NC
Registered: 2005-12-14
Posts: 1577

Therian genetic's....

Here's an interesting article I found.



http://news.yahoo.com/humans-broke-off- … 18879.html



Some of you might know about how I think theriantropy is possibly linked to having more dominate neanderthal genetic's.



The article even suggest that's why some European's have "hot immunities".  That's intresting.



One step closer to discovering "homo-lycanthropus"! 







Siverwolf.


Homo - Lycanthropus

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#2 2012-10-05 14:09:32

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

Aye. Thanks. Neanderthal fossils show pretty strong signs of very active immune systems. There are bone deep injuries that would have killed any of us, and a lot of arthritis. I wish there was some way to study their soft tissue anatomy but fossils aren't too good for that.

Did you see the link in that article to the one about Neanderthal immunity?

http://www.livescience.com/15754-neande … umans.html

Last edited by WolfVanZandt (2012-10-05 14:14:59)

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#3 2012-10-06 02:59:59

AshenWolf
wolf on the run
From: my mom
Registered: 2009-06-08
Posts: 2115

Re: Therian genetic's....

I'm excited- I do have some vested belief of therianthropy having at least some genetic influence, and the more anthropologists determine about the interbreeding of Neandrathals with early hominids, and the more geneticists discern about the impact of those 'non-human' genes on our evolution, the more potential I see for possibly understanding at least some aspect of therianthropy. It's interesting, but there is a theory that, despite the amazing immune systems attributed with Neandrathals, some scientists believe that there is some possible link to auto-immune diseases being a product of dominant Neandrathals genes conflicting with certain human genetic and internal processes. I'll post a link if I can find it.


"It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not."
                                                                                          -Andre Gide

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#4 2012-10-06 03:04:24

AshenWolf
wolf on the run
From: my mom
Registered: 2009-06-08
Posts: 2115

Re: Therian genetic's....

Oddly enough, Europeans are known for their tough immune systems, and even some Inuit mythology claimed Europeans descended from the 'monstrous' wolf men born from an Inuit woman's copulation with a large red wolf. It's folklore, so I guess it doesn't belong in this particular thread, but I thought the connection was interesting.


"It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not."
                                                                                          -Andre Gide

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#5 2012-10-06 03:45:43

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

That is very interesting.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#6 2012-10-06 07:48:42

ShadyHowl
Token British Wolf
From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 738

Re: Therian genetic's....

Wow, sudden flood of older members!

Also very interesting. WVZ, what were the genetic correlations you drew between therians? Wasn't having a strong immune system one of them?


Disclaimer: I am actually female.

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#7 2012-10-06 14:59:58

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

Aye. There was also autoimmune diseases, bilateral asymmetries, shovel teeth. and, possibly, some mild structural differences. Many Therians seem to have a slight Neanderthalish brow ridge - nothing too obvious but, if you notice on a normal human skull, there's no brow ridge above the nose at all.

Also, the Serbs call themselves Sons of the Wolf and believed they were descended from a monstrous black wolf called Dabog, Dazbog, or Svarog. The myth of Prince Vseslav, the Russian Werewolf hero is tied up with him. In our original standing as "Dogs of God" the god mentioned was Dabog and it was only after our entry into European society that we became associated with the Christian God.

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#8 2012-10-06 16:54:16

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

I just love reading werewolf legends and folklore. You seem to know a lot of them WVZ.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#9 2012-10-06 18:16:50

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

When I started to college (1973), I had a huge research library (at the time, the largest in the US) at my disposal. I've been studying therianthropy ever since. My chief regret is that I didn't reference my studies in the early years. I had no reason to believe that there were other Werewolves (much less other Weres) and so i was studying for myself only. When I found the Were community in 1999, I realized my error and started being more responsible in my studies so I have a lot of catching up to do. I have a website where I post my studies if you want to see it. It should be posted in my profile.

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#10 2012-10-06 18:49:01

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

We found the were community at around the same time. I will have to check your website out.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#11 2012-10-06 18:53:47

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

I tried going to the site and it says the site doesn't exist.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#12 2012-10-06 22:39:21

AshenWolf
wolf on the run
From: my mom
Registered: 2009-06-08
Posts: 2115

Re: Therian genetic's....

Hey Shady! Looks like the old gang's getting back together smile
I love listening to werewolf lore. It helps that WVZ is full of it lol
I've noticed the autoimmune issues,too- at least in myself. My mom has lupus, and so does my grandmother. In fact, there's a long history of autoimmune disease on her side of the family. I've noticed I've gotten more allergies the older I've gotten. Four years ago I was diagnosed with OAS- which basically means I can't eat raw fruits, vegetables, or nuts without an allergic reaction. Last year I was diagnosed with being Celiac, and I've always been lactose intolerant. I don't know, has anyone noticed more food allergies in therians?


"It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not."
                                                                                          -Andre Gide

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#13 2012-10-07 00:08:33

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

Here's a link to the Therian Timeline:

http://theriantimeline.com/

I have a friend with Crones in the Community. Another, a vegetarian, just went vegan because she found that she is allergic to  milk and eggs.

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#14 2012-10-07 00:29:04

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

I need to restart my werelist account...if i can remember my screen name.
If i can't,i will just set up another one.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#15 2012-10-07 08:22:57

AshenWolf
wolf on the run
From: my mom
Registered: 2009-06-08
Posts: 2115

Re: Therian genetic's....

Thanks, Wolf! smile I should restart my account on werelist too... Hasn't been updated since 2009


"It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not."
                                                                                          -Andre Gide

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#16 2012-10-07 13:32:02

bloodlust
werewolf guardian
From: Tennessee
Registered: 2008-01-05
Posts: 1635
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

I think that was the last time i was on as well.


"Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend."
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=152377

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#17 2012-10-07 16:51:16

ShadyHowl
Token British Wolf
From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 738

Re: Therian genetic's....

Allergies and lactose/gluten intolerances run in my immediate family too; but I only have the former (thus far; tends to be something we develop later in life).

From what I hear shovel teeth are primarily a Native American characteristic so I wouldn't expect to see that in many European therians - I certainly don't have it.


Disclaimer: I am actually female.

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#18 2012-10-07 18:05:28

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

There are three populations that I know of in which shovel teeth predominate (meaning  that not all members of the group show them but a much higher frequency than expected) - Native Americans, Melungeons, and Therians.  If there's any genetic factor in Therians, it will be complex so, cross mating being what it is, there should be quite a lot of diversity in the community and all you could expect would be predispositions.

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#19 2012-10-07 19:37:41

AshenWolf
wolf on the run
From: my mom
Registered: 2009-06-08
Posts: 2115

Re: Therian genetic's....

That's true- but it is interesting that such a frequency of multiple traits are consistent in therians. You guys are probably aware of far more than I am, but certain traits do appear to have a tendency to be dominant more frequently within therians. I didn't know you had allergies too, Shady. But I agree- the majority of my allergies developed as I got older- not the other way around where I grew out of them. I wonder the predominance of gluten/lactose intolerance in other therians? I have read that gluten has an adverse effect on canines and felines (they are essentially celiac) and that's why there's a movement to remove gluten from commercial pet food. Not to suggest there's a direct correlation, but there are other species that are inherently celiac. I don't personally know too much about Neandrathals, but some studies have suggested those with dominant Neandrathal genes tend to relate to immune deficiencies or diseases- something about those genes not quite matching human genes. I've also read that Neandrathals constitute 3-4% of the human genome in Europeans (not to say these are dominant), while Donisovans make up 3-4% of Malasian populations.


"It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not."
                                                                                          -Andre Gide

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#20 2012-10-31 11:34:11

ShadyHowl
Token British Wolf
From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 738

Re: Therian genetic's....

There was an interesting show called Prehistoric Autopsy on about a week ago here in the UK which discussed the anatomical differences between homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis. They actually did genetic tests on some native Brits and found that all white Europeans have between 2-4% neanderthal genes as a result of inbreeding between neanderthals and early man.

Neanderthal physical features included a prominent brow ridge, broad nose, short, stocky stature with hefty bone structure, barrel chest and broad, rounded shoulders.

I find it quite possible that people with therianthropy are likely to be at the higher end of the neanderthal genetic variance (3-4% or maybe slightly higher) but to know we'd have to know whether other physical traits were common. Oddly enough, the only other British therian I know and myself both have the slightly stockier, broader build too. I wonder how pervasive this is?

Just some interesting thoughts.

Last edited by ShadyHowl (2012-10-31 11:34:48)


Disclaimer: I am actually female.

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#21 2012-10-31 12:42:51

Siverwolf
Member
From: Western NC
Registered: 2005-12-14
Posts: 1577

Re: Therian genetic's....

And I think they found out through DNA that Neanderthals had reddish hair.  But not sure if that's just one of them or the whole race?



Siverwolf.


Homo - Lycanthropus

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#22 2012-11-01 01:33:31

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

It's not really "how much Neanderthal DNA is present" but "how much of it is expressed." For most people, the Neanderthal DNA is just unexpressed "junk" DNA. That's why I call (speculatively) Therians "Neanderthal atavisms".

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#23 2013-04-15 18:04:08

FinShaggy
Member
From: Denver
Registered: 2013-04-15
Posts: 85
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

I've never thought about werewolf in terms of Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon... But I would think of it the other way around, wouldn't a werewolf be the NEXT step in human evolution, and not the remnants of a species past?

Think about it this way. Neanderthals died out of some mysterious cause. (What was between Neandertahl and Cromagnon) That is the missing link, but we have no idea. According to record the Neanderthals ran "the world", then one day the cromagnons were just THERE, and Neanderthals started dying and were eventually wiped out and replaced completely by Cro-Magnons.

Now, think about this. Wouldn't this make the Cromagnons the more "Werewolf" species? Sure they are "less hairy", but they were BETTER, SMARTER pack animals.

If anything, wouldn't something that we consider "Half wolf, Half human" be the NEXT step, and not a step back? The "Apex Predator".

Also, if you look into Greek Culture at "Pan", he is a hairy half man half beast who loves the moon, the wilderness, and is the alpha of the "faun". Therianthropy may just be the "wilderness" within humans, and not necessarily anything genetic.

Last edited by FinShaggy (2013-04-15 18:05:49)

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#24 2013-04-15 20:37:24

WolfVanZandt
Member
From: Broomfield, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-01
Posts: 4717
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

The top explanation today is that Neanderthal bred with homo sapiens, became the recessive trait and bred themselves out of existence as a specie; but every human being that isn't of pure African ancestry has some Neanderthal DNA, so they're not extinct - they're just hybridized. Neanderthal isn't a step forward or backward - they've always been here.

Wolves aren't apex predators and mixing with humans would make them even less so.

And I suspect that Weres (and other atavisms) /are/ the wilderness in humanity. The way I read it, there is the genetic basis but it has to be triggered by environmental pressures, being the increased domestication of the human race - it's nature's attempt to correct a bad, fatal flaw in humanity.

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#25 2013-04-15 20:42:55

FinShaggy
Member
From: Denver
Registered: 2013-04-15
Posts: 85
Website

Re: Therian genetic's....

We can't be sure Neanderthals are still in our blood, what if cromagnons came from aliens, and killed all the Neanderthals? Just because there is a widespread theory doesn't mean the genes still exist. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Wolves aren't apex predators, but a werewolf sure as hell would be. That's better than a bear.

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